United States Mint set to release presidential medals struck in silver on August 16

WASHINGTON — The United States Mint will begin accepting orders for the George Washington Presidential Silver Medal (product code S801) and the John Adams Presidential Silver Medal (product code S802) on August 16 at noon Eastern Time (ET). Both medals are priced at $39.95 each.

Hover to zoom.

The obverse (heads) of the George Washington Presidential Silver Medal features his portrait as designed by Pierre Simon Duvivier. The inscription GEORGE WASHINGTON PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES and the year 1789 are centered along the border of the medal.

The obverse of the John Adams Presidential Silver Medal features his portrait as designed by Moritz Furst. The inscription JOHN ADAMS PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES and year A.D. 1797 are alongside the border of the medal.

The reverse (tails) design of both medals is by John Reich. The design features the inscription PEACE AND FRIENDSHIP, symbolized by two hands clasped in token of amity. On the cuff of the left wrist are three stripes with buttons, each button carrying the American eagle; the other wrist is bare. Above the hands, the pipe of peace and the tomahawk are crossed over each other.

Each encapsulated presidential silver medal arrives packaged in a clamshell case with a standardized certificate of authenticity.

The Mint is introducing the Presidential Silver Medals Program under the authority of Title 31 U.S.C. § 5111(a)(2), which allows the Secretary of the Treasury to “prepare national medal dies and strike national and other medals if it does not interfere with regular minting operations.”

The Department of the Treasury has a long-standing tradition of honoring each president of the United States with an official bronze medal struck by the Mint. The Mint is now replicating these medals in .999 percent fine silver.


After the initial release of the Washington and Adams presidential silver medals in 2018, the Mint will issue four presidential silver medals each year (one each quarter) beginning in 2019 in the order that the presidents served. The medals will have a matte finish similar to an Uncirculated coin. (Note: The term “Uncirculated” is exclusive to coins.) The medals may be produced across multiple production facilities and will not have a mint mark.

The Mint accepts orders online and by dialing 1-800-USA-MINT (872-6468). Hearing- and speech-impaired customers with TTY equipment may order at 1-888-321-MINT. Information about shipping options is available at the Mint’s website.

About the United States Mint
Congress created the United States Mint in 1792, and the Mint became part of the Department of the Treasury in 1873. As the Nation’s sole manufacturer of legal tender coinage, the Mint is responsible for producing circulating coinage for the Nation to conduct its trade and commerce. The Mint also produces numismatic products, including Proof, Uncirculated, and commemorative coins; Congressional Gold Medals; silver and bronze medals; and silver and gold bullion coins. Its numismatic programs are self-sustaining and operate at no cost to taxpayers.

Press release courtesy of the United States Mint.

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Comments

  1. Anthony says

    These silver Prez medals are a no go for me along with the American Innovation $1 coin series.
    Will save a buncha bucks, not to mention the space saved in closet clutter! 🙂

  2. earthling says

    I really like the Big 3 inch Bronze Medsls put out by the Mint. They have put out many Presidential Medals in Bronze and I have most of them that were available since around the turn of the century. Small Medals, even in Silver, don’t really appeal to me. I do like the design of the Washington Medal and would get it as a 3″ Bronze but not the small Silver version.

  3. Buzz Killington says

    Sadly, this is like something the Franklin Mint would have put out.

    “Now, for a limited time, an extremely limited edition [limited to the amount of silver in the Earth’s crust] medals depicting the US Presidents depicted in Pure Silver.”

    What about putting ads on TV, a la the Civil War Chest Set — I’m sure they would sell a bunch!

  4. CaliSkier says

    @ Buzz: “
    What about putting ads on TV, a la the Civil War Chest Set — I’m sure they would sell a bunch!”

    Don’t give the Mint any ideas!

  5. Robert says

    I have not seen a size or weight for these silver President medals yet. Anyone with that info care to share?
    Thanks

  6. CaliSkier says

    Perhaps, after these issues fail to get traction with sales, the Mint will realize, had they gone for a mintage or sales window, month/year, the overall sales would’ve, perhaps been much better??? I guess we’ll see how many medal collectors are out there? Because, since this is essentially a bullion product, most IMHO would probably rather purchase closer to spot? Although the ASE & ATB 5 oz are more costly per oz, I just don’t think this product appeals to those, all ready collecting the ASE/ATB 5oz coins? the sales from those, who may switch, due to a better value/oz & with a lower premium, would only detract from the overall sales numbers of the ASE/ATB 5oz!

    Of course HSN and any other tv/online offerings should KILL it!!! With their false sales ploy/overhype, in addition to elderly, non savy, misinformed, online shopping addicted, ignorant, etc, customer base, they’ll have no problem profiting handsomely from this offering!!!

  7. CaliSkier says

    @ Robert and others whom haven’t seen the specs, use this Link!

    I have not seen a size or weight for these silver President medals yet.

    1 Troy oz &

  8. jerry Diekmann says

    No for me on these silver medals, the WW I fugly coin and medals, and the “innovation” dollars, whatever that is supposed to mean. Like cagcrisp has said before, overpriced gimmicks. None of these will ever be worth more than spot, so that means zero with the clad dollars.

  9. earthling says

    What do you think when an overly enthusiastic young nerd teen tries to indoctrinate you into the “Investment Potential” for all the rare POGS released in the Past 10 Years? He can give you a list of “Printing Figures” that are really low. He also shows you wild Ebay Sales prices from the Boom Years. Sounds really impressive ! And all he wants you to do is buy into his Warehouse of non moving Rare POGS and prepare to get RICH ………….. ! Just as soon as the stuff gets HOT ……….. again……….. like any day now……. hopefully.

    Don’t want to hear that BS, you say?

    That’s what I say when I hear about the value of Rare Silver Art Bars from the Art Bar era. And I can imagine that’s what Non Coin People think when they hear about Boys Town Commemoratives . and 225th High Relief Gold Thingamajigs.

    And I think everyone is in the mood for a 500 Coin Collector March on the Philly Mint during that Coin Convention. Just a little show of non support for the flood of Coin and Medal Dreck coming out .

  10. cagcrisp says

    2018 Proof Palladium on Sale September 6th, 2018…

    Next week we Should get the determining factor as to whether the 2018 Proof Palladium has Any Possibility of Long Term Appreciation:

    Price and Mintage

    Currently there are 4 1 oz. grid pricing Proofs:

    American Gold Eagle Proof + $377.50

    Buffalo Proof +410.00

    Platinum Proof +420.00

    American Liberty Gold Proof +440.00

    …SO…Logically for me the Mint will put a + to grid pricing of $450.00+ for the 2018 Palladium Proof
    The question is with a premium of $450.00+ what will the mintage be?

    My Guesstimate it will be a Too High Mintage of 20,000 to 25,000

    At $450.00+ premium pricing anything over 15,000 is Too High for Possible Long Term appreciation

    I WANT + $600.00 and a Possibility of Long Term Appreciation mintage of 10,000

    You don’t always get what you want and in this case I Doubt I will get what I WANT…

  11. Buzz Killington says

    @cag —

    Given that Pd has fallen back a bit lately, don’t you think that will depress demand on this piece a little bit?

    I don’t see Pd coins flying off the shelves at eBay like they did when the price was running up.

  12. cagcrisp says

    @Buzz Killington,”Given that Pd has fallen back a bit lately, don’t you think that will depress demand on this piece a little bit?

    I don’t see Pd coins flying off the shelves at eBay like they did when the price was running up.”

    Bay prices have been going Down on the 2017 Palladium Bullion because of the anticipated pricing of the 2018 Proof Palladium being LESS than the Current bullion price.

    The 2018 Proof Palladium will be a Launch Day Sell Out with mintage of 15,000 or Less…

  13. cagcrisp says

    Are Gold prices Up or Down in the past 6 months?

    Answer: Depends on the Currency

    Gold prices for the past 6 months in various currencies:

    American Dollar Down ~ 7.94%

    Mexican Peso Down ~ 6.46%

    Japanese Yen Down ~ 6.17%

    Canadian Dollar Down ~ 3.98%

    Swiss Franc Down ~ 2.77%

    Australian Dollar Down ~ 1.83%

    Indian Rupee Down ~ 1.23%

    Euro Down ~ 1.19%

    British Pound Down ~ .24%

    Chinese Yuan Up ~ .23%

    Russian Ruble Up ~ 6.79%

    Brazilian Real Up ~ 7.15%

    South African Rand Up ~ 7.85%

    Turkish Lira Up ~ 54.48%

    …SO…When you look at the Currently Low prices for Gold and Silver you have to think “What Direction will the USD take?”

    The Trump administration is Losing Leverage due to the Strength in the USD. What will the Trump administration do to the USD?…

  14. Anthony says

    @cagcrisp… I’ll take a swing at a guess: 2018 Palladium Proof with $440 premium with a mintage limit of (at least) 15,000 & maximum of 25,000.

  15. Anthony says

    @Ryan: That suggestion of your’s (American Wildlife series) would have been a big hit, especially for the $1 coin, instead of some contrived American Innovation series. Innovation? Ha,!
    Americans innovate but only after they’ve tried everything else! 🙂

  16. Anthony says

    I feel the Mint has made a very egregious mistake on these Prez silver medals by not placing (SOMEWHERE on them) the fineness of the 1 oz. of silver.

    If the medals are separated from the original mint packaging (as often happens) how would a person know if the medal was silver, an ounce, .999 fine, or a U.S. Mint product?

  17. CaliSkier says

    @Cag: I had an ahh ha moment regarding, “I WANT + $600.00 and a Possibility of Long Term Appreciation mintage of 10,000”

    I decided to do some simple math with what you’ve been advocating for, as well as some other combinations of the spot, premium & mintage numbers! Taking into consideration the cost to the consumer and how many will likely buy or shoot the lock off the wallet in order to purchase, your idea is the one most likely to sell through the entire mintage and possibly create a desirable effect of a continued customer base as well as potential on the aftermarket IMHO!

    However I’d have to say IMO that “$600 over spot” will have the opposite unintended affect! With very few collectors/numismatists, jumping in on this coins(Pd) offering and continuing to not purchase ANY of the additional years Pd PF products from the Mint! I’d like to offer up a different stategy/idea and say that $425 over spot with a mintage of 15,000 would be an effective way to better get this coin off to a potentially better start and actually garner a following from the collector base they are actually targeting with this new Pd PF series? Better yet would be a $375 over spot with a mintage of 17,500!!!! My thinking is that with a lower premium, this would attract more people to purchase and get them into more people’s hands, hoping to build a solid year in and year out following!!! Might also help with morale and a slight improvement in customer relations? Either of my scenarios, providing they sell the entire mintage, would result in more seigniorage, than your idea, “$600 over spot & 10,000”, which seems to be a common theme(seigniorage)/concern to some of your previous posts!

  18. CaliSkier says

    14,118 @ $425 & 16,000@ $375, over spot would generate/produce the same $6,000,000 your $600 over spot,would produce!

  19. CaliSkier says

    Since they were able to sell 15,000 2017 bullion versions, hopefully they’d be able to sell 15,000 collectors versions? I’m aware that, although both products have the same amount of Pd, the market for the 2 different(bullion vs numismatic) products are different animals altogether!

  20. cagcrisp says

    @CaliSkier” Obviously I disagree.

    I didn’t just pick $600 and 10,000 out of a hat. I would Prefer Under 10,000 but that ain’t going to happen.

    1. There is No Seigniorage on Precious Metal Products. Only Income or Loss. So that’s not a concern.
    2. There will be More Net Income for the Mint IF there is mintage of 10,000 @ $600 vs. 15,000 @ $425 or 17,500 @ $375
    3. I Don’t want More coins in More hands, I want Fewer coins in Stronger Hands…

  21. Buzz Killington says

    @cag —

    I think you are right that 15K — with no or very high HHL — would sell out. Would it sell out during a HHL of 1 at 15K?

    When talking about Pd, I was not just talking about USM Pd, but the Ballerinas, Maple Leafs, and a few other random issues. For awhile, when Pd was going up, all of these Pd coins were MOVING, for premiums far more than I would pay, on top of a historically high spot price.

    I think we may see people jumping on to duplicate the price appreciation of the USM Pd Mercury, but there are not 25K strong hands that want to hold one, and there may not be 15K.

    I am pretty sure that Canada does not make a Pd Maple Leaf every year because the demand just isn’t there. It is really not even easy to quickly google what years of Canada Palladium Maple Leaf are available.

    All of that being said, I am still going to get one, if I can, which will probably be my last USM purchase for quite some time.

  22. cagcrisp says

    @Buzz Killington,” Would it sell out during a HHL of 1 at 15K?”

    I Think 15,000 would Sell Out Launch Day with a HHL of 1.

    Friends and Family would be used IF a HHL of 1

    However 15,000 is pushing Long Term Appreciation…

  23. CaliSkier says

    @‘Cag: “2. There will be More Net Income for the Mint IF there is mintage of 10,000 @ $600 vs. 15,000 @ $425 or 17,500 @ $375”

    Honest ?. Would that be due to potential additional production costs, relating or due to die use or wear? The reason I’m asking is that from a simple mathematical point, which is how I’d clarified previously, your idea generates lower net income than what I’d suggested! Again, I’m beyond aware at your numbers skills, however your desire($600) @ 10,000 vs my suggestions of 15,000 @$425 & 17,500 @ $375 would generate $6 mil vs $6.375 mil & $6.565 mil in net income, respectively! Again providing the given mintages sell out!

  24. CaliSkier says

    @ Cag: “3. I Don’t want More coins in More hands, I want Fewer coins in Stronger Hands…”

    Please explain how this ^ comment would benefit anyone, let alone the collectors, this product is targeting? As I’d expect this to take a. VERY long time to appreciate enough to recover the $600 over spot?

    Your comments “At $450.00+ premium pricing anything over 15,000 is Too High for Possible Long Term appreciation

    I WANT + $600.00 and a Possibility of Long Term Appreciation mintage of 10,000”

    This seems to contraindicate the 15,000 Pd Bullion Prices skyrocketing a year later on the aftermarket? Those numbers happened over an approximate 1 year span vs Long Term! Meaning, although I could be incorrect, IMO you’re maybe really subconsciously hoping for an Immediate sell out & profit on the aftermarket vs long term appreciation? No?

  25. CaliSkier says

    Ive personally wanted to add a Pt or Pd US Mint, PF or Unc offering to my collection, however I’ve not done so, as I can’t rationalize the expense over Au pricing in relation to spot values. I’m confident that Pd & & Pt are more costly to press, I just st can’t wrap my head around the intrinsic vs spot vs production costs charged by the mint?

  26. CaliSkier says

    Cag was nice enough to post: “Currently there are 4 1 oz. grid pricing Proofs:

    American Gold Eagle Proof + $377.50

    Buffalo Proof +410.00

    Platinum Proof +420.00

    American Liberty Gold Proof +440.00

    Envisioning Pd APE PF @ +$600 IMO is crazy! Especially with spot pricing of Au $1211.20, Pt @ $826, & Pd @ $904, on the WSE! Let’s not compare to silver which doesn’t follow a pricing grid! If it did translate over, as is with what the Mint charges, people would either freak out with silver product pricing, more so than already! Or people would absolutely go insane if Au, Pt, & Pd were adjusted to be in line with the overprice Ag products!

  27. CaliSkier says

    Is 2018 the first year of a published Product limit on the PF AGE products? Correct me if I’m incorrect, however product limit would be limited to number of individual coins sold, plus the number sold in the 4 coin set?

  28. CaliSkier says

    A follow up from my comment on a previous thread pertaining to the WW I $1 coin and medal sets. I said “‭I’m hoping Cag isn’t right and they’re not someone else’s returns, as many on MNB have speculated previously!!! As I’m not much of a fan of, scratch, dent & ding sales!!! If my order is processed and shipped, I’ll post on the condition of them!

    I’m glad to report, although many felt they shouldn’t have been put up for sale, the condition is great! I’d have rather paid for the medals as a stand alone set however! The medals are well executed and believe it or not, the $1 coin looks better in hand than online! Regardless of the soldiers nose!

  29. So Krates says

    “…providing they sell the entire mintage, would result in more seigniorage…”

    “1. There is No Seigniorage on Precious Metal Products. Only Income or Loss. So that’s not a concern.”

    A more accurate accounting would calculate negative seigniorage on PMs and deduct it from the circulating side.

  30. CaliSkier says

    I already stand corrected by. Cag and the misuse of the word seigniorage .

    ““1. There is No Seigniorage on Precious Metal Products. Only Income or Loss. So that’s not a concern.”

    A more accurate accounting would calculate negative seigniorage on PMs and deduct it from the circulating side.”

    There isnt ANY negative regarding US Mint net sales(seigniorage) on PM products offered by the mint! Year in and year out they have generated a Plus in net income from their PM products! I repeat, they are NOT losing money! Just a reduction in number of PM products sold, resulting in a lower net income vs a loss or negative in come! Therefore, less money is being sent to the Treasury to either go towards interest on the National Debt(Seigniorage) or in the case of PM net income, which is able to be spent in any way the Treasury or Government sees fit!!!! Fact!

  31. cagcrisp says

    @CaliSkier,” however your desire($600) @ 10,000 vs my suggestions of 15,000 @$425 & 17,500 @ $375 would generate $6 mil vs $6.375 mil & $6.565 mil in net income, respectively!”

    You are confusing Gross Revenue vs. Net Income. You are Correct that you examples would generate more Gross Revenue and I am correct in that my example would generate more Net Income.

    The Mint needs Net Income…Not Gross Revenue…

  32. CaliSkier says

    US Mint website:

    SEIGNIORAGE AND NET INCOME
    Seigniorage is the difference between the face value and cost of producing circulating coinage. The Mint transfers seigniorage to the Treasury General Fund to help finance national debt. Net income from bullion and numismatic operations can also fund Federal programs.

  33. cagcrisp says

    @CaliSkier, ,”@ Cag: “3. I Don’t want More coins in More hands, I want Fewer coins in Stronger Hands…”

    Please explain how this ^ comment would benefit anyone, let alone the collectors, this product is targeting? As I’d expect this to take a. VERY long time to appreciate enough to recover the $600 over spot?”

    It has the Potential to benefit investors. That’s what I’m concerned about. I don’t see a Lot of “collectors” that would be after the Proof Palladium @ + $600 over Spot. I don’t see many collectors after the Proof Palladium at virtually anything close to what the Mint will be selling them at…

    “VERY long time to appreciate enough to recover the $600 over spot?””

    Done properly by the Mint the $600 premium would Not be hard to overcome. The HHL and the mintage has to be correct however…

  34. cagcrisp says

    @CaliSkier,”Your comments “At $450.00+ premium pricing anything over 15,000 is Too High for Possible Long Term appreciation

    I WANT + $600.00 and a Possibility of Long Term Appreciation mintage of 10,000”

    This seems to contraindicate the 15,000 Pd Bullion Prices skyrocketing a year later on the aftermarket? Those numbers happened over an approximate 1 year span vs Long Term! Meaning, although I could be incorrect, IMO you’re maybe really subconsciously hoping for an Immediate sell out & profit on the aftermarket vs long term appreciation? No?”

    I don’t Think Anything over 15,000 has Any chance of Long Term Appreciation Regardless of the grid pricing.

    I Do want a Launch Day Sell Out. I Don’t need immediate profit because I don’t sell anything…

  35. CaliSkier says

    @. Cag: “@CaliSkier,” however your desire($600) @ 10,000 vs my suggestions of 15,000 @$425 & 17,500 @ $375 would generate $6 mil vs $6.375 mil & $6.565 mil in net income, respectively!”

    You are confusing Gross Revenue vs. Net Income.

    Then could you please unconfuse me! Yes I know that’s not a word! Please provide the numbers or explanation regarding your statement “ I am correct in that my example would generate more Net Income.” Yes, I understand what youre saying about Gross vs Net! Since you never elaborated you’re example relating to Gross/Net, whereas I clarified using simple math! If you don’t mind, will you further elaborate how your numbers equate to a better Net return?

  36. CaliSkier says

    Cag says: “It has the Potential to benefit investors. That’s what I’m concerned about. I don’t see a Lot of “collectors” that would be after the Proof Palladium @ + $600 over Spot. I don’t see many collectors after the Proof Palladium at virtually anything close to what the Mint will be selling them at…”

    Maybe you’re confused? This is a numismatic offering, not an Investment product! As many on MNB and possibly yourself have mentioned in the past, that modern offerings from the Mint are losers with no potential for a profit or appreciation long term! You advocate for net income and seigniorage, yet you’re now advocating for VERY low mintage numbers? Is anyone else just a bit confused by Cag’s mixed message? Ponder, as you can’t have it both ways, not to mention if I’m not Confused/mistaken AGAIN, that this will be the US Mints 1st PF collectible/numismatic Palladium coin?

  37. cagcrisp says

    @CaliSkier,”Then could you please unconfuse me! Yes I know that’s not a word! Please provide the numbers or explanation regarding your statement “ I am correct in that my example would generate more Net Income.” Yes, I understand what youre saying about Gross vs Net! Since you never elaborated you’re example relating to Gross/Net, whereas I clarified using simple math! If you don’t mind, will you further elaborate how your numbers equate to a better Net return?”

    1. You have to look at the Numismatic Net Margins that you would be dealing with. For the past 7 years the Overall Numismatic Net Margin is 15.8% for Gold and Platinum. That’s it

    2. You look at the premiums to Spot on the 1 oz. Golds and Platinum proofs ($377.50, $410.00, $420.00 and $440.00)

    3. You know that start up production costs will be higher in Year #1 for the Palladium Proof than in later years

    4. From that you can get an ~ Numismatic Net Margin for the Proof Palladium in 2018

    5. Once you have determined your ~ Numismatic Net Margin you just have to apply it to the mintages and prices to determine your ~ Net Income with various mintages and prices…

  38. cagcrisp says

    @CaliSkier,”Maybe you’re confused? This is a numismatic offering, not an Investment product! As many on MNB and possibly yourself have mentioned in the past, that modern offerings from the Mint are losers with no potential for a profit or appreciation long term! You advocate for net income and seigniorage, yet you’re now advocating for VERY low mintage numbers? Is anyone else just a bit confused by Cag’s mixed message?”

    There has been several Mint offerings that had Potential Long Term Appreciation. You have to have Several things come together at the same time. You have to have it right on Launch Day. You don’t get but one chance.

    The Mint got it Right on Launch Day for the Gold Winged Head Liberty dimes. They got it Wrong for the Standing Liberty Gold coins when they went to the HHL of 1 and then with the failure of the Standing Liberty Gold, the Walking Liberty Gold had no chance and then to top it off the Mint played class warfare on who could/could not purchase the Winged Head Liberty Gold the second time around and it now has no hope.

    The Gold American Liberty 1/10 oz. Gold had Potential until the Mint screwed up with the preposterous mintage of 135,000.

    The 2018 Palladium Proof has Potential Long Term Appreciation IF the Mint doesn’t screw it up with pricing, mintage and HHL…

  39. CaliSkier says

    Cag: Thanks a LOT for your willingness to explain your reasoning further!!! I’m used/conditioned to negative responses in prettty much all aspects of my life when I’ve questioned things! So your answers, without attacking or getting defensive is BEYOND refreshing and I’m truly grateful for your ability and continued patience in explaining further!!! Thanks for shining the light and allowing me to “see the forest, through the trees!!!!

    You’re the man, and SPOT on with an overwhelmingly high percentage/accurate take on this hobby IMHO, for what it’s worth!

  40. earthling says

    The conditions that led to the recent boom in the Coin Hobby are forever gone aren’t they? The 90’s were boom years. Wall Street, Real Estate, Abundant Jobs, the Good Times were rolling. When the States Quarters Program started in 1999, conditions were ideal for a Coin Fiesta to take center stage and command attention until the Disaster of 2008.

    After the Fall, the Festival conditions were gone. People had lost Jobs, Homes, Savings, Play Stations, Hope.
    To expect things in the Coin World to be the same just isn’t being real. Coins are not happening and might not ever be , ever again.

    On the bright side, McDonalds might just start a Boom in Merchants Tokens . The next Givaway might be much stronger than this recent Big Mac teaser. I plan to be ready. Recreation Overeating could become an American Thing once again.

  41. So Krates says

    @ CaliSkier – Although you said “you stand corrected” and have also posted a definition of seignorage, I’m not sure you’re getting it.

    Again, seignorage is simply the difference between face value and cost.

    For example in FY2015 a dime cost $.0308. So almost .07 in seigniorage. But the penny cost .015 so it has a negative seigniorage of a half cent per coin. After netting all the coins out they have a positive figure for seigniorage for circulating coins which gets rolled into income and transferred to the general fund.

    My point was to calculate seigniorage on the precious metal side. This would almost always be negative (regardless of net income or loss) because the difference between cost and face value is the opposite than most circulating coinage. Say the cost to produce and distribute a proof palladium coin might be $925. Subtracting the $25 face value leaves you (if cag gets his way) with 9 million in negative seignorage. This number should be calculated on all PMs and numismatics and used to offset the positive number on the circulating side.

    For exampleTotal Unit Cost ($) 0.0150 0.0632 0.0308 0.0763

  42. CaliSkier says

    @ So Krates: Don’t confuse the terminology nor mix words, as water and oil, don’t mix.

    Seigniorage(profit) is generated from the difference of the cost of the metal and costs to produce and distribute said coinage. Circulating coinage is then sold to the Federal Reserve Bank at the face value of the coins manufactured. The values are $,01, $.05, $.10, & &.25! The $.50 & $1.00 are currently not being manufactured for circulation. The FRB has a MAJOR stockpile of Presidential $1.00, as I’m sure you’re already aware. So, although I’ve e not delved into the 2017 Annual report from the US Mint, I feel confident saying that they are currently not ordering the $1.00 coins as they have more than enough to support commerce or the vending machines that give them back as change for many years to come!

    Your example using the penny was ALMOST(off by .32 cents)) correct and the nicke(6.6 cents) also costs more to produce and distribute as well!

    Excerpt from Coin News/2017 US Mint Annual Report: “The toll to produce, administer and distribute the 1-cent coin was 1.82 cents in FY 2017 compared to 1.50 cents a year earlier. For the 5-cent coin, the cost went up to 6.60 cents from 6.32 cents. Higher metal prices were one factor in the increases.” Great link that breaks down Seignorage from Coin news from Feb 2018.

    http://www.coinnews.net/2018/02/26/penny-costs-1-82-cents-to-make-in-2017/

    “Subtracting the $25 face value leaves you (if cag gets his way) with 9 million in negative seignorage. This number should be calculated on all PMs and numismatics and used to offset the positive number on the circulating side.”

    This IMO was Not what Cag was talking about! He was correcting my usage of the word Seigniorage, whilst commenting on both Circulating(FRB), Bullion(investor), & Numismatic(collector) offerings from the mint! When using the Correct terminology, Seignorage refers ONLY to circulating coinage Sold to the FRB for use in day to day commerce. Whereas when discussing Bullion or Numismatic coinage the words used are Gross and Net Profit. In reality Bullion and Numismatic are typically Not referred to in terms(seigniorage) of face value versus the cost to produce(metal/mfg cost) and distribute! Again the US Mint Is NOT losing money, nor have ANY negative costs associated with the PROFITS gained regarding their Bullion or Numismatic offerings! PERIOD.

    The ONLY TRUTH, is that the sales numbers of products sold in these categories(Bullion & Numismatics/Collector), has steadily declined.over the past many, consecutive years! Lastly to be VERY clear, at ZERO cost to the taxpayer,at an Overall PLUS Net Profit!
    Period.

  43. Daveinswfl says

    Name another U.S. Gvt unit which operates at a NET PROFIT. I’ll be waiting……probably for a long time.

    You know the product mix is a huge flop when the discussion revolves around seniorage and profits. Hopefully this all indicates we are approaching a bottom …….the only question is “will we ever see collecting of coins rise yet again?”

  44. CaliSkier says

    @Daveinswfl: “…….the only question is “will we ever see collecting of coins rise yet again?”

    Strictly a guess, however IMHO no. The cost to collect, room to store coins, discretionary money to spend, rise in cost of consumer goods, rent, inflation, inability to get or give meaningful raises, healthcare costs, insurance costs, cost of raising a family, 20-40 somethings moving back to parents home, out of control Government spending, taxes, etc……! These times are so very different than even 10 years ago with an even greater difference, change or disparity to 20 or more years ago?

    The ONLY way I potentially see, to stop the bleeding, would be for precious metals to take off! Even then we would only see a relatively small influx for a limited time, due to the cost involved for a collector or an investor to enter the market due to said rising PM costs! Other than an appreciation for the small scale artwork, which many on MNB complain(artwork) about I have a hard time seeing ANY growth regarding the collecting of coins. Especially when most new collectors are purchasing the moderns vs classics. Partially due to cost, lack of knowing what they are buying, lack of experience and a lack of a reputable source selling at fair vs inflated pricing, not to mention the potential for fakes or counterfeits! Just too risky for many to get or want to get involved! With technology and societies continuing at an exponential growth, IMHO, it just doesn’t seem plausible? Time will tell……?

  45. earthling says

    If the Mint could take a Clue fron the McMint perhaps they could start a Program of Storecard Commemorative Coins of some sort? It would be best if it involved a Big Coin so probbly the Half Dollar would be he best bet.

    Something interesting on the Coins like Animals or Birds , Dinosaurs, Sports Teams, Sports Players, Ford Mustangs, or even Hollywood History. If different Corporations, Zoos, Theater Chains, Auto Dealers , Churches, Sports Stadiums could give these desirable and interesting Coins out as a promotion, everyone would win. How about Boy Scout Coins sold to compete with Girl Scout Cookies? Or even Girl Scout Coins to boost Girl Scout Cookies?

    The Key Idea I’m trying for is a Giveaway to boost Business. But instead of a Private Minting Firm , the US Mint produces a Legal Tender Coin that would be the ” Give -Away ” Incentive.

    Could this be the start of something Big?

  46. CaliSkier says

    @ earthling: I hate to say it, however you more than likely just opened Pandora’s Box here on MNB!!! We should begin to feel/read the wrath from commenters regarding your above suggestion!!! Wait, for it,…..wait for it………!

  47. earthling says

    Think of it as a way to cut out the money grubbing middle man. As I see it , the ” middle man” ; Dealers, TV Hucksters, Flippers, Floppers, hoarders, packers , and stackers are the problem . If we can start a boom with the give-a-way , we could start a new Chapter in Collecting History. Sell the freebie Coins to a Large Organization , and no one else, and let them control the release.

  48. says

    “Name another U.S. Gvt unit which operates at a NET PROFIT. I’ll be waiting……probably for a long time.”

    How about the DOD? According to Ronald Dumsfeld on 9/10/01, $3 trillion went “missing” from the vault at the Pentagon. Why would they be hoarding $3 trillion to lose? Was the $3 trillion all there was to lose? Yet year after year we increase their budget, this year will be about 1.5 trillion, (don’t forget those nukes). There are acres and acres of un-needed military equipment in AZ with millions and millions added per year just to try and spend down the budget. Yet we don’t audit the DOD. Gotta be making one heck of a profit. Maybe they could pay back that trillion that Raygun “borrowed” from SS to create/build Star Wars, which never worked as proved last year when we tried to shoot down an ICBM and failed…

  49. Erik H says

    MarkInFlorida says

    AUGUST 11, 2018 AT 9:18 PM

    I predict eventually the Pd proof and the Pd bullion will be the same price.

    I agree with Mark (if the mintage is 15k or more).

    I hope the mintage for the Proof Pd is 10k since the bullion version had just a small premium at the time I purchased.

  50. Daveinswfl says

    Earthling,
    Kinda like the Cheerios dollar promotion?
    Maybe Cracker Jacks could have a special penny minted to go into their prize package.
    Or a 1/10 oz gold coin in every millionth box of Olympic star Wheaties.
    Elon could give every Mars reservation a free lunar gold commemorative.

    You get the idea.

    SOMEBODY needs to get the Mint thinking outside the box (NOT the cra@@y shipping boxes!)

  51. Buzz Killington says

    If you accept the premise that gimmicks are in the future, I can think of a lot worse ones than letting private industry order exclusive legal tender coins. I think that model is superior to the Canada model; the volume of new Canadian issues really makes them seem more like tokens, rather than legal tender issues — especially where these “face value” silver pieces are not really accepted as legal tender after all.

    However, I would prefer less gimmicks, not more or better ones.

  52. CaliSkier says

    Anthony says: “I feel the Mint has made a very egregious mistake on these Prez silver medals by not placing (SOMEWHERE on them) the fineness of the 1 oz. of silver.”

    Interesting point. The only medals I own are the new WW I medals(5) plus the W & P 2011 September 11 National Medals. Neither of them list weight content or fineness. As a matter of fact, although I’m not sure, medals, unlike coinage, don’t include these details as part of the given medals design. I looked at some images from the NWR Medals from 2003 and these also omit this info from placement as well! Here’s a link to a previous article on the latter from one of MNB’s sister site Coin Update News.

    http://news.coinupdate.com/national-wildlife-refuge-system-centennial-medals-1442/

    Perhaps one of our fellow MNB readers with more knowledge re: medals, can explain better or give more info regarding the omission of this information from the design of medals?

  53. CaliSkier says

    @ Anthony and others, perhaps the omission of details from these silver medals comes from the fact that Medals, not being coins or bullion have typically been replicas of original one offs, that were made from gold or silver? With , what little info/data I’ve gleamed from the US Mint website, I think the majority of Medals the Mint has produced for sale to the public ,have previously been either pewter or brass versus Silver?

    I could be wrong however this link from the US mint might have been the beginning(1974)of medals for sale to the public.

    https://www.usmint.gov/learn/history/historical-documents/mint-to-restrike-americas-first-medals

  54. NCM Collector says

    @Caliskier- the Mint made dozens of silver (and other metals )medals for recipient organizations. While the Franklin Firefighter medal is the first one ounce silver medal there are plenty of .90 and .925. I like the four Statue of Liberty medals from 1965.

  55. NcCoinCollector says

    If I had purchased every reverse proof offering by the US Mint , would I be in the red or black if I valued the collection whole?🤔
    Thanks in advance

  56. Erik H says

    I don’t think medals generally list metal content. I own a few for artistic value not PM value and only the paper work shows the metal used. Also, as somebody else pointed out these are cheaper than numismatic ASE (not bullion ASE) so IMO the price isn’t all that bad.

  57. Erik H says

    The cheaper price also shows that the Mint could sell numismatic ASE for less but since they know every year people will pay the Inflated price they don’t.

  58. Larry says

    @NcCoinCollector, I think the key here is the 2006 RP AGE. You had to buy the whole set for about $2600. Today you can probably get over $5000 for that set. So that coin alone should put the rest of the RP set easily in the black. Unless I am missing something, which wouldn’t surprise me.

  59. CaliSkier says

    For any MNB reader seeking more info about Silver Medals sold in the “modern era” check out this post by “commems Learn More… Pillar of the Community United States 3818 Posts Posted 11/15/2016 1:47 pm” over on the link(Coin Community), provided here. The above post on this forum is the 12th from the top and “commems” provides a list with additional links……

    https://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=272670

  60. CaliSkier says

    This comment from a Coin World article, helps me to better understand some of the frustration expressed by a few MNB commenters re: the 2018 WW I Silver Medal & $1 Sets.

    “According to U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White, “The sets will not be produced until the final quantities for each set has been determined.”

    Interesting or confusing/mis-leading fact, is that based on what’s currently happening and the WW I medals back up for sale @ the US Mnt, I went ahead and checked the Mints site for an explanation and terms of sales regarding this product vs what was supposedly said and quoted(Michael White US mint Spokesman) in the Coin World article.

    Exact as found on US Mints site: “The coin and medal sets are limited to 100,000 units across all five product options and can be ordered only between noon on January 17, 2018, and 3 p.m. on February 20, unless the limit is reached prior to that date. Production will be limited to the orders received within this window. Fulfillment of these sets will begin in late May 2018.”

    Couldn’t be more clear, “can be ordered only between noon on January 17, 2018, and 3 p.m. on February 20” Key word being “only”!

    However, sure enough this wasn’t true and the mint basically mis-lead or falsely advertised this products sale terms!!! Is there a different definition of ONLY?

    Hence the bad feelings/anger/distrust/disgust, produced when the US Mint began selling outside their own pre-announced, clear and defined sales window!!!

    I took advantage when my account and ability to purchase had been restored. ONLY I purchased outside(lucky me) the Mints own defined order window. Ponder…….. hmmmm??? To anyone reading, does Class Action come to mind……??? Just saying……

    I’m thankful for the sets I ordered for my brother and I, however I COMPLETLY UNDERSTAND Why this, has Really Irked many of the Mints customers for sure!

    I’d be upset as well, had I followed the rules, only to find out the game and rules had changed or I had been mis-lead. Basically I wouldn’t have played and would think twice before playing any more of these Mint games!!! Another fine example of our Government at work! Then we wonder why their sales have continued to decline??? One of many examples, IMO why sales have gone downward!

  61. So Krates says

    CaliSkier says, “Your example using the penny was ALMOST(off by .32 cents)) correct ”

    Please read carefully. I referenced Financial Year 2015.

  62. cagcrisp says

    USD is showing great Strength.

    PMs acting accordingly.

    Gold getting Close to breaching $1,200.00…

  63. cagcrisp says

    No matter what the +premium for the 2018 Proof Palladium…

    …IF the Mint uses the grid pricing, breaking below $900 is a good deal…

  64. Hidalgo says

    Gold is under $1200 now, but the markets always fluctuate. Who knows what the price will be by the end of the day, week, year, etc.?

  65. Hidalgo says

    @CalSkier,

    Even if the US Mint decided to limit production to 50,000 — or even 25,000 — I question if there would be any long-term value for these medals.

    The demand for medals among coin collectors is simply lukewarm at best.

  66. CaliSkier says

    @ So Krates: You were 100% CORRECT vs “ALMOST’about the $.015, in 2015, re; the cost to produce the penny. My bad…..

  67. The RCB says

    Anyone else find that pretty substantial error in the 2018 reverse proof set? Apparently at least one set included a Kennedy Half which had an obverse that was totally proof instead of just reverse proof.

  68. cagcrisp says

    Senator Tom Cotton R-AR introduced on July 26th, 2018, a 2021 Silver Commemoratve $1 “ To require the Secretary of the Treasury to mint coins in commemoration of the centennial of the establishment of the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier.”

    The Good in the Bill:

    • Is that there will be limited to 100,000 Silver Dollars
    • There will be NO Gold or Clads coins
    • Inscription of the word “Liberty”
    • “minting and issuing coins under this Act shall result in no net cost to the Federal Government;”

    The Bad in the Bill:

    • They are going to take a TON of Overhead Expenses…Because:

    (a) Sale price.—The coins issued under this Act shall be sold by the Secretary at a price equal to the sum of—
    (1) the face value of the coins;
    (2) the surcharge described in section 7 with respect to the coins; and
    (3) the cost of designing and issuing the coins (including labor, materials, dies, use of machinery, overhead expenses, marketing, and shipping).

  69. CaliSkier says

    Hidalgo says: “I question if there would be any long-term value for these medals.

    The demand for medals among coin collectors is simply lukewarm at best.”

    The value, regardless of these US Mint Numismatic offerings is the beauty beholden, to the eye, of the individual collector! Whether an individual is a collector of US Mint offerings or not, more and more products now and in the future will have some arbitrary mintage limit more than likely declared! This as well as the majority of their wares were never intended for the speculators, investors, or “flippers”! As a business model fact, the Mint could
    Care less which category/label or classification a given buyer fits into, as long as they’re buying, With No Cost to the US Taxpayers.

  70. CaliSkier says

    Now time for some fun w/a Guessing game! Key word here is GUESS! Less than a month ago(7/16) here are some 2018 PM, low spot price guesstimates! Again the Key word is…..yep, Guess!

    2018 low predictions*

    Cali: Au $1050 Ag $12.50 Pt $760 Pd $840
    A&L: Au $1160 Ag $13.80 Pt $715 Pd $865

    *Guesses/predictions, not intended or to be used for investment nor speculative purposes! The key word kids is? I’ll accept only one other answer when Grading your answers…….. FUN!

    PS Anyone else want to venture a “KEY word”?

  71. CaliSkier says

    WOW!!! PM’s are tanking today!!!

    Currently ALL listed are down:

    Au. -$18.90

    Ag – .33

    Pt – $ 30.00

    Pd – $ 21.00

  72. Anthony says

    I can’t see young adults buying a 2021Tomb of the Unknown Soldier silver dollar or any of the already designed American Legion Centennial coins for 2019.
    I suppose the market for militaria type coins rests in the hands of older veterans.
    Themes such as these will NOT encourage and potentially grow the base of new collectors in modern coin issues.

  73. cagcrisp says

    @Anthony,”I suppose the market for militaria type coins rests in the hands of older veterans.”

    Agree 100%.

    IF you know Tom Cotton you would know where his concerns are and where his base comes from…

  74. John Q. Coinage says

    Cali, I agree on the WW1 sets, reselling returns & cancelled is wrong IMHO… How long can they go on, can they crqck out some unsold samples as well/.. WHO KNOW$$???

    ANOTHER Military medal, Cotton, why not propose a Trump is G*dlike Commem, he is war monger & shill for POTUS45 deluxe……. IF you want commems to sell pick a good subject….. 2021 Morgan Z Proof Centennial….Explorer 1 60 years…. 90 years of talking pictures…… 80 Years since start of WW2….

  75. captainrich says

    Many assume there will be 45 of these silver Presidential medals issued during the new program, but long-time collectors of the bronze U.S. Mint Presidential medals realize there could be many more. Starting with Nixon, every President elected to a second term also had a second bronze Presidential medal issued (Nixon, Reagan, Clinton, Bush, Obama). When will the U.S. Mint state the number of medals expected to fulfill this new silver medal program?

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