Bowers on collecting: Nostalgia time — Civil War money

By Q. David Bowers

This week I give a reprise of the very first blog I wrote for this site. Enjoy!

Forming a collection of money used during the Civil War can be an interesting pursuit. A full collection of such would include tokens, coins, and paper money and would run to over 1,000 varieties, if scrip or private paper money notes were considered. A bit simpler is to have a type set showing representative examples of each of the major categories of money or money substitutes. This would include the following:


1859 Indian Head cent (wreath). Hover to zoom.

Federal coins ranging from the Indian cent to the Liberty Head double eagle. Denominations in copper and silver are easily enough obtained, plus the first nickel alloy coin, the three-cent piece of 1865. Gold coins include the $1, $2.50, $3, $5, $10, and $20, and can be a bit expensive.

Federal paper money includes Postage currency and fractional currency notes of denominations from three cents to 50 cents. One denomination of each of the two series would make a nice display.


$100 Gold Certificate, series of 1865.

For a type set of regular currency, perhaps a single representative note such as a Legal Tender bill of 1862 would suffice. Beyond that, there are many possibilities, some very expensive, including various interest-paying series, Gold Certificates, and National Bank notes.

Private Issues


1861 U.S. Postage stamp: General Washington, 90 cents.

Encased postage stamps were issued beginning in the summer of 1862 by over 30 merchants. These consist of a brass frame with mica front, under which a regular postage stamp of a value from one cent to 90 cents was placed. These circulated at the value of the stamp and are widely collected today. A representative inexpensive issue would fill the bill.

Tokens


1863 Aschermann Civil War store card token

These are in two main classes. Civil War tokens were issued by private interests and have patriotic motifs as well as merchants’ advertisements. A set could include one example in each category. These are very inexpensive, and in grades such as Extremely Fine to lower Mint State ranges, can cost less than $100 each. A bit scarcer as a class are sutler tokens, issued by merchants who had licenses to travel with military troops and to operate stores selling clothing, games, books, and other items. These generally range into low three figures.

A set of one each of just the basic categories, excluding rarities, would certainly make a nice exhibit at a coin show. In practice, most collectors of Civil War items are specialists. Those who collect Civil War store cards issued by nearly 1,000 different merchants are not likely to collect gold coins of the Civil War, and those collecting National Bank notes are not likely to collect encased postage.

The entire field is interesting and is worth investigating. Money and history come together very nicely.

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Comments

  1. cagcrisp says

    “Gold coins include the $1, $2.50, $3, $5, $10, and $20, and can be a bit expensive.”

    100% Agreement…

    Civil War Gold is Very Expensive…

  2. Qui Transtulit Sustinet says

    @ Erik H.

    ATB Silver Bullion

    Erik, APMEX is only one of many “authorized purchasers” of silver bullion from the U. S. Mint.

    Aside from the two German authorized purchasers, there are EIGHT other U. S. authorized purchasers in addition to APMEX.

    A major one is Dillon Gage of Dallas, which has a contractual relationship with Provident Metals, also of Dallas, for inventory management and fulfillment operations until 2022.

    Provident Metals has no need to buy their inventory from Oklahoma City based APMEX.

    I already posted that many online retailers, including, but not limited to Provident Metals, offer ATB bullion pucks for sale to COLLECTORS earlier (often by “Pre-Sale”) and at lower prices than APMEX does.

    IMO, collectors do not buy pucks in tubes of ten or monster boxes.

    Speculators, re-sellers, stackers, and a few special “gifters”—no, I did not say “grifters”—do that.

    Cagcrisp’s use of APMEX for ATB puck data aligns with his purchase of a grand total of one out of forty-five ATB puck designs released so far, namely the 2015 Kisatchie National Forest, Louisiana issue that he deemed a “superior design” worthy of the Wild Turkey hunters of Arkansas.

    His enthusiasm (and mine, I purchased two bullion Turkeys) helped the Kisatchie Wild Turkey bullion puck achieve sales of 42,000, compared to the 80,000 Block Island Heron bullion pucks recently sold.

    According to cag, this and all other differences in sales figures for ATB bullion pucks are solely due to fluctuations in the spot price of silver.

    I disagree, and believe that the artistic merits of a design will always have an effect on sales, even of Mint offerings characterized as “bullion”, especially given collector preference for the bullion finish and pricing over that of the so-called “numismatic” Mint offering of the same design.

  3. So Krates says

    Qui Transtulit Sustinet says, “IMO, collectors do not buy pucks in tubes of ten or monster boxes.

    Speculators, re-sellers, stackers, and a few special “gifters”—no, I did not say “grifters”—do that.”..

    I enjoy reading your comments

    You speak as if this ideal Collector, pure as the driven snow, above the fray and muck of the bourse exists. Indifferent to prospects of price appreciation and motivated by artistic purity, the Nobel Coin Savage buys only what he likes, unsullied by market forces and coin community opinions.

    IMO these categories you’ve named often bleed into each other. Collectors sometimes speculate. Stackers sometimes resell. I’d venture that a gifter who doesn’t also collect is quite the rare bird.

    Classification is a curse of the modern mind and should sometimes be resisted when applied to people. Cagcrisp ain’t your average bear. To squeeze him (or countless others) into an existing big box or to create his own tiny box in which to categorize his coin buying behaviors seems pointless.

    On the other hand,

    Playas, they gonna play
    And haters, they gonna hate
    Ballers, they gonna ball
    Shot callers, they gonna call…
    That’s the way it is
    -3LW

  4. cagcrisp says

    @Old Big Bird says,” does anyone know what the HHL and pricing is going to be on the Apollo 11 coins?”

    The Only Apollo 11 coin that has a released HHL is the 5 oz. puck.

    HHL of 5 with a mintage of 100,000.

    My Guesstimate is the puck will be ~ $200.00 +/- $5.00…

  5. datadave says

    I’m a puck lover and I’m proud of it. I would rather have a puck than 5 silver eagles any day. I favor the bullion pucks as a better value and believe that a least a few will always trade above spot. Looking at 9 year trend sales of pucks and ASEs, I think the pucks have a better collector base.

    With that said, I think the bullion sales numbers are affected by the silver spot prices and physical demand market and that some of the designs had really high sales because of this. I think comparing sales of the P version is also tricky because of the fix price and therefore constantly flucuating premium.

  6. Anthony says

    @cagcrisp… Where did you get the HHL of 5 for the Apollo 5 oz. proof from?
    I didn’t see it mentioned within the item description on the Mint website.

    Since the Federal Register is “down” with the govt shutdown, how will the HHL and prices get set?

    Just two weeks away from 1st day of sales for the Apollo.

  7. cagcrisp says

    @Anthony says,”@cagcrisp… Where did you get the HHL of 5 for the Apollo 5 oz. proof from?

    That’s a Good question….Without a Good answer.

    I don’t remember Where I got it…

  8. cagcrisp says

    Day #3 of the 2019 Bullion sales…

    About what I expected…Same Facts…Different Interpretations of the Facts…

    2019 Buffalo Gold = 1.000 oz.; MTD 18,000 oz.
    2019 American Gold Eagle = 2,000 oz.; MTD 46,500 oz.
    2019 American Silver Eagle = 125,000 oz.; MTD 2,796,000 oz.
    2019 American Platinum Eagle = 1,800 oz.; MTD 21,000 oz.

  9. John Q. Coinage says

    Wow $56 for the ’19 proof ASE……guess $14-15 AG not a consideration…this ain’t a gimmick it’s design it as stale as Tang from Apollo 11…..

  10. cagcrisp says

    2019 Congratulations Set that went on sale Today…

    CU

    The Mint sure isn’t going to get caught with a Lot of inventory…

  11. cagcrisp says

    @John Q. Coinage says,”Wow $56 for the ’19 proof ASE……guess $14-15 AG not a consideration…this ain’t a gimmick it’s design it as stale as Tang from Apollo 11…..”

    Look at it as the Glass Half Full.

    2018 saw 31 price Increases.

    IF the Mint doesn’t Raise prices, it’s a Win…

  12. John Q. Coinage says

    I agree Cag especially IF I was a buyer…..in general it appears to be like PCGS saying in away…buy the coin not the PRICE… In the end mintages will drop the ?is will anyone care in 5-10 years….

  13. cagcrisp says

    The Mint will SO (in short order) the 2019 Apollo 11 Proof 5 oz. puck WITH a $50 surcharge

    You can bet, we will see More $50 surcharges

    Win/Win/Lose

    Win for the organization IF they recoup costs

    Win for the Mint IF they don’t

    Lose for those that pony up the money…

  14. Qui Transtulit Sustinet says

    @ So Krates

    I also enjoy reading your postings.

    We have already had this conversation about “categorizing” buyers of numismatics.

    I have agreed with you in the past, and agree with you now, that the “categories” of collector, investor, stacker, re-seller, retailer, speculator, gambler and gifter, ad infinitum….OVERLAP.

    That doesn’t mean that purchases in quantity, such as a monster box, or dozens, hundreds or thousands of the same coin or set, fall under the category of a buyer acting as a collector.

    Clearly, purchases of that size are not about an individual collecting numismatics, unless you feel that cherry picking one or two pristine examples out of 100 or 250 purchased and selling the rest qualifies the entire large volume purchase as a purchase by a “collector”. I don’t.

    Could that large volume purchaser be a collector?

    Absolutely.

    But he is not motivated primarily by “collecting” when he purchases in quantity hoping to turn a profit.

    Hard core re-sellers out there who earmark their profits from multiple purchases (usually in small, NOT large quantities) into furthering their collections (I believe one or more posters have implied this) do have a claim on collecting as a purchase motivation.

    I’ll address your comments about cagcrisp in another post.

  15. Qui Transtulit Sustinet says

    So Krates,

    I’ve written multiple times that silver prices and their resultant effect on retail puck prices are ONE factor that influences purchase decisions for buyers of pucks, myself included.

    I have never said I was “indifferent to prospects of price appreciation” or that others are or should be.

    I have said that as a hobbyist collector, I am influenced by many other factors in addition to potential price appreciation.

    As far as placing cagcrisp in a category “box”, I have simply applied the same nomenclature of gifter and gambler to him that he has used many times to categorize his own numismatic habits.

    The words gambler and gifter are of his choosing, not mine. He has specifically denied being a collector.

    My disagreement with him is his presumption that by posting endless listings of sales figures (most of which he denigrates openly as ill-advised purchases, based upon their low or non-existent appreciation potential) he can divine the individual purchase motivations of consumers that in the aggregate, comprise those total sales figures.

    My wife is an accountant, but I do not expect her to look at historical sales data and accurately tell me the motivations of the buyers.

    Cagcrisp and all the rest of us are just guessing when it comes to understanding all of the various factors motivating the discretionary purchase decisions of coins.

    However, he would have us believe that the purchase decisions for “moderns” , including “bullion” pucks and other numismatics are based entirely upon the fluctuations of precious metal prices and speculations about future gains in value.

    I believe the motivations of buyers are much more complex than that and certainly include the aesthetic appeal of coin design, finish, and production, as well as historical and theme considerations, among others.

    He apparently has no problem applying some of these attributes to his purchases o f Civil War gold, or Wild West era Morgan dollars, for example, but is unwilling to admit the same considerations motivate buyers of silver “moderns”.

    There are plenty of domestic and foreign, old and new, silver coins, rounds, and medals to buy if you are simply looking for a good price on silver.

    Someone is classifying or categorizing the collectors of ATB pucks, especially the bullion version, too narrowly, but I don’t believe it is me.

  16. Qui Transtulit Sustinet says

    Query on Apollo:

    If cag’s ball park guess of an initial (and likely final, due to a quick sellout) $200 U.S. Mint price for the Apollo five ounce silver is accurate, is that a price you are willing to pay?

    Follow-ups:

    Are you willing to pay about $200, or probably a bit more with shipping, for an Apollo you are willing to hold in a collection, or only in hopes of a quick profitable flip?

    Your thoughts on the 100,000 mintage?

  17. Buzz Killington says

    Am I willing to pay $200 for a 5 ounce silver piece with a mintage of 100,000?

    In a word, “no.” In three words, “under no circumstances.”

    I see this program as BBHOF redux. There will be a buying frenzy and sell-outs, and that will allow some flipping.

    And in 4 years, they will be below issue price, because there just aren’t that many buy and hold, pure-as-the-driven-snow collectors who want to hold onto this stuff over the long term.

    I would wager that most modern “collectors” of anything (coins, comics, baseball cards, silver stacking, action figures, etc. etc. etc.) have profit in mind, even if over the very long term.

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