Pamela Geller in Breitbart, Jerusalem: “UK Chief Rabbi Says Teach Islam in Jewish Schools”

I did not say that churches are preventing. I said Jews are permitted to pray in a mosque but not in a church. Those are Rabbinic decrees.
I did not paint a picture, I stated some facts and Pamela Geller is free to respond to them. They are facts. In fact in her article she asks what Muslims are doing to reciprocate Rabbi Mirvis’ suggestion, and I posted that to show her where she may have missed some news.
You on the other hand seem to think that Jews should accept Christians posing as Jews and you think you can frighten us into doing so by using the Muslim threat.
In this respect you’re no different from the Muslims you keep saying are a threat.
The real issue here is that your replacement theology needs validation from Jews and when you don’t get it you attempt to use Muslims to hide your own agenda.

I don’t want to pray in a mosque and Muslims will not let Jews pray in mosques, as witnessed by the prohibition to pray on Temple Mount, let alone in the mosque there.

That said, teaching about Chistianity in a Jewish school does no require any child to pray in the church.

Avi, yes Jews by rabbinical decrees pernitted to pray in the mosquees, but in reality do Jews will do that? Well to be more precise will muslims allow that? I think I understand what you meant for muslims will prefer pick Judaism to be taught in their school over Christianity because of some compatible practices. For that we should look back at Mohammad story with Judaism and Christianity. He adopted alot of Judaism practices into his new religion to attract Jews in Mecca and Medina but to no success, while Mohammad knowledge of Judaism mostly based on what he heard from Christians. Jews population on both cities was bigger than Christians, and Mohammed wanted to introduce a supreme god for arabs as well as for jews. He had problem with Christians on his confusion of Christianity and he had no knowledge at all about christianity but stories. Jews later see Islam is more compatible only because Islam doesn’t promote trinity, and Islam doesn’t worship Jesus. That Islam praying toward certain direction and fasting, halal food, etc. But a rabbi make a decree that a jew could pray in mosquee is just as twisted as the god worshipped in mosque is never the god worshipped by jews. The god worshipped by muslims is the god that ordered muslims to kill every jew on sight. Why a rabbi would allow a jew to use the place where muslims are taught to hate jews just because it is somehow compatible is make no sense as well as dangerous because most of muslims not sharing that “small” group of muslims who can manage to live in peace with their fellow jews and others.

I would like to give you an example. Indonesia has the large muslim population in the world. The very word of “Jew” is something that has all bad or negative connotations to them. And since very little age they are taught to hate “Jews” and to discredit “judaism”. To hate people they never met, to hate something they don’t know about. Just because Quran said so.

We had this old building that was once a Synagogue in Surabaya. It was once belong to a small Iraqi jews then they flee from Surabaya during Nazis conquest of Europe, Indonesia was at the time occupied by Netherland, and Netherland was occupied by Nazi so Nazis post were everywhere too in this part of the world, to add constant harassement and threat by local muslim to persecute them. Surabaya (east java) is the heart of Islamic community. Then the building were used by European jews too, later they also flee to Israel and other countries after WWII. Some remained but had to convert to Christianity (why not Islam?) for fear of their lives. They chose Christianity not Islam because muslims tolerate christians, and christiand embraced them eventhough they know these Jews only need that as a cover to protect themselves not that they wanted or heart-willing to be christians.

The building in 2009 were demolished by muslim radicals, as they did not want any “jewish” thing in their Islamic land. People protest as the buildinv should be treated as historical site, yes educater muslims and christians protest that to no success. Their voices were nothing to that small radicals group. Can you see here that is not about how many muslims but how strong that ideology that even by small numbers of people shut down the larger group of people. These peaceful muslims that wanted that building to not being destroyed even they were larger in numbers could do nothing at all. They backed down by the quotation of Quranic verses shouted at them.

While in other part of Indonesia, a young man accidently learnt the history of his ancestor. He is half Indonesian and half European. His grandmother told him that she is actually a jew. She converted to Christianity because Judaism is not allowed by Indonesian law. They were given choice to convert or to leave. She married a christian thus she should follow her husband religion. Upon learning that, this young man further learn about Judaism and he decided to get back to his roots. He changed all the cross on tombs of his European family members with the Star of David. And then he made a synagogue, he raised a permanent 7 branch Menorah of 62 feet tall on the top of a hill, make it the biggest in the world. Even the local government permit it and help with the fund. He got small community but at least safe as they are protected by christians. It is in a christian dominant region of North Sulawesi. Muslims all over Indonesia are furious knowing that and attempt to have government to shut it down and destroyed the menorah, but the christians stand strong with those small jewish community. They don’t have to be compatible in religious matter, they stand because they willing to learn from each other and to want to understand each other. It is never about religiois compatibility but willing to co-exist and to learn from each other in respecful way. I learnt a great deal about Judaism and also Islam…as for a protestant it is significant to learn the roots and history of Abrahamic religions. If Jews prefer to learn Islam because Islam is more compatible with Judaism it is their right. But they forget one thing Jesus was a Jew and eventhough Christianity was built upon his name and teachings…he died a Jew and he has never convert himself to another religion or to proclaim a new religion for himself.

One thing we all admit here Jews were persecuted along the history by invaders as well as by Christians and also muslims. I was a protestant and i learnt that Martin Luther the father or protestantinism was an anti-semite. Those Nazis eventhough they denounce christianity many of them germans using “Luther’s personal anti-semitism” as one of reference why should they hate Jews. It was Martin Luther personal grudge against Jews because he like Mohammad also failed to have Jews to admit Christianity. He was the one who sow the seeds in german christians to take the stance that Jews killed Jesus that later adopted by many christians too but what he was very wrong as a christian scholar was the fact that Jesus never said a word of hate regarding his people, instead he loved his people and he prayed for them. While protestant has various of churches and teachings, they do honored Martin Luther as the first reformer, but many now have back to bible and detached themselves from personal view of prominent protestant figures like Luther. They could not whitewash what had happened to Jews by Christians, so they do their best to create that bridge and to reconcile. It is something that Islam will never do. Some muslims may want to but they simply can not do that as it will mean they will have to betray Quran, and it is something they fear most. Better to kill and die for Quran than to compromise it. They better kill their own kin than to have Quran betrayed. While Chriatians did alot of evil things in the past it was never sanctioned by their Gospel or Jesus teachings…it was sanctioned by churches or its prominent figures or teachings which means they can be reformed and always reform when it is needed. While Islamic treat of non-muslims is sanctioned by Quran and Mohammed so it can never be reformed no matter how a good heart muslim wants it. They can not do that ever.

I live among muslims and they are all good people my friends. They are good not because of Islam but by nature. But there is always a gap..unreconciled gap with them when it comes to Islam. What keeps them to tolerate non-muslims in Indonesia is that we are of same people of same hostory, but it is never ever applied to Jews eventhough they have Indonesian blood. We are living in a rather peaceful with our muslim fellows under one condition we should never ever critisize Islam. And thanks to secular system adopted we can practise our religions but it also very limited to religions that acknowledged by the state. No atheism, no paganism, no shi’tes, no ahmadiah, etc that is not sunni-Islam and certainly big no to judaism. Small jews in Indonesia are alive there in North Sulawesi simply because their chriatians majority fellow acknowledge them and protect them.

So if Jew rabbis make such decree and persuade Jews to rather learn Islam to make bridge with muslims. Those rabbis must have overlooked all the attempts by Christians to make bridge with them simply because of some compatibility? That is absurd way and also suicidal decree in my point of view.

Avi, I think you need a long holiday. Your argument are facile. Re your Nazi and Crusaders analogy, the Nazi were not Christians and rejected Christianity, the Crusaders’ prejudice reflective of the Catholic church at that time. However, it’s not lost on me that most Jews still regard any white European or Slav as ‘Christian’ whereas today most are simply gentiles and complete pagans.

Further, when so harshly critical of what you regard as ‘Christian’ cruelty toward Jews, you need to take a hard and honest look at what the Bolsheviks, initially led mostly by Jews, Lenin part-Jew, Lev Kamanev and Gregor Zienoviev both Jews, most of Cheka Jewish, most of the slave camp commandants Jewish, did to Russian people between 1917 and 1924. 19 million were murdered, most with a bullet in the back of their head. No group is free of guilt for rotten deeds done.

In regard to Islam and Muslims your are astoundingly naive and ignorant. Utterly clueless and need to spend considerable time reading this website daily. Pamela Geller will teach you a considerable amount and relieve you of illusions about Muslims and Islam. One thing is certain, my ignorance of Judaism is only exceeded by your ignorance of Christianity. I know of no Protestant church that has or countenances anything that resembles idols. They are forbidden in the Bible, a reason why I don’t understand why they exist in Catholic churches. Another thing, I know of no Protestant church that would not welcome a Jews inside it, but the problem, it seems, is rabbinical aversion to our acceptance of Jesus as the Messiah. So in that respect the problem is a Jewish problem of not accepting what we believe. That aside a Jew may, from a Christian standpoint, enter a non-Jewish house of worship – provided some rabbi does not informs them they cannot.

I, personally, don’t know of any Christian charges against Judaism other than possibly its opposition to our acceptance of Jesus as the Messiah, but even that is something of which I have never heard in a church and I can only imagine is the preoccupation of some Jewish leaders.

Thanks for your courteous comment. I’m not American, I’m a South African in Canada who as a boy in Cape Town attended a school where at least 1/3 or the boys were Jews. So they were my classmates, teammates and one a good friend. For some peculiar reason I have had a long and pleasant history with Jews and I think it stemmed from the fact that I did not care if they were Jews – and I think they knew. If I liked them as a person that has been enough. That said, I do know of the Jewish persecution that continued for centuries in Europe, know it was painful and can understand abiding distrust. The fact is, many Christians to are aware of that painful history and this is reflected in their support of Israel.

Why do you persist in writing such utter drivel?

Why judge the Muslims on the basis what ISIS does? I judge them on the basis what PLO, Hamas and Hezbollah do. I judge them on what Jordanians , Egyptians and other ‘moderate’ Muslims think of and do to Jews.
Please note that there are practically no Jews in any Muslim country, and where they are, like Iran, there are practically hostages.
This it not to white wash what Christian did to us over almost 2000 years, but keep in mind that in the country like the USA, a Christian country, Washington wrote a letter to the Congregation in newport that has no equivalence anywhere in the Muslim World to this day.
As to the question if Jews are allowed in a church, it is irrelevant to the question which religion should be a subject of study in a Jewish school.