Muslims open fire on a bus carrying Christians to a monastery in Egypt, at least 7 murdered

James’ thanks for taking the time to make that meaning crystal clear. Yes I can see the EU and the UN for the demon that they are and will read through Revelations in my bible.
Cheers mate.

I don’t know if all the rumors about Koresh are correct, or even if just many, any or none are. It seems that the people were able to leave and return of their own volition and not held against their will.

His preaching seemed to be very disjointed and appeared to be coming from him as opposed to to being Spirit led. However, he seemed to either foster or at least revel in a cult-like persona ; perhaps that may be where the ” thinks he’s the Messiah ” rumor came from. He also seemed to emphasize an ” us against them ” mentality concerning an end time scenario.

The feds claimed the compound was harboring illegal weapons, and their ( feds ) part in it contributed just as much to the siege as did the inhabitants. The perceived threat surely didn’t warrant that response, and with it contained, a proper negotiator should have been able to bring about a better resolution.
I don’t absolve Koresh of blame. He came across as bible knowledgeable but seemed to miss the mark of Christ’s teachings. This made him dangerous to his followers, and perhaps even a bit of a bully, using his knowledge more against them, then for them. But false teachings and even outlandish beliefs are nothing new ; what great threat the Davidians posed that they had to be killed for, is a mystery and likely even a crime.

Watched a new documentary this past wknd on Waco. I was astonished at the complete ineptitude of the ATF. They were the first task force confronting the Davidians, and the number of poor decisions and assumptions they made was mind-boggling. Unfortunately they also set the stage for more difficulty to follow for the FBI who took charge after an ill advised attempt to raid the compound ended in multiple deaths on both sides.
The FBI took a more thoughtful approach, but even they conducted themselves unprofessionally. Their team was divided into negotiators and tactical segments, but there was no respect and poor communication between their teams, with tactical acting upon their own conclusions independently of the negotiators. Each time they did, it set the negotiators back to the start, losing the gains they made. This undoubtedly contributed to the ultimate failure which followed.
Koresh was nothing more than an opportunistic manipulator. He bamboozled his followers with twisted scripture and lies, and seeing his end coming, he selfishly sacrificed the lives of the 75 remaining Davidians, children included, to preserve his inflated ego. He could have ended it peacefully ; there were plenty of opportunities to do so, but his reneging and stalling on promises ultimately led to the final confrontation.
The fire that consumed the compound, appeared quite unintentional but was the result of the first round of tactics. A strong wind fanned the flames quickly and even if firetrucks had been nearby, it was not an anticipated development. Textbook failure from beginning to end.

Ironically, this all stemmed from someone in the ATF deciding to make no attempt to even try to exercise the warrant they had to search for those illegal weapons, in spite of the local sheriff saying he didn’t think it would be an issue. And at some point in this disaster, Timothy McVeigh sat with the crowd, watching.

As I watched, I asked myself the why’s and what could have been gained by the authorities acting sinisterly and not just incompetently. Apart from the era ( cults were common and problematic ) that may have influenced decisions and conduct, I did not perceive anything sinister. The FBI did seem to genuinely think that the tear gas along with the announcement of the end of negotiations, would cause them to come out. The fire put a swift and deadly end to a situation that should have been so easily avoided. I view it as an incompetence fueled tragedy abetted by poor discipline.

Definitely, the ATF’s actions were a major factor in this tragedy. It did seem like they were just a bunch of cowboys looking to flex some muscle rather than follow a sensible procedure. The proof of that is in their decision to proceed with a raid that was counting on the element of surprise, even after learning that they had been found out. Surviving agents said their protests went unheeded from the top and they reluctantly went in expecting things to go badly. One even said that he contemplated subordination because the plan became untenable.
Apparently, postal records showed shipments of rifle parts that could convert AR15’s into fully automatic M16s. After it was all over, they claimed that 4 such modified guns were found, and in Texas, they were considered illegal weapons.
There was no mention of disciplinary action taken against anyone involved, ATF or FBI, but it became a turning point in their training procedures. The producers of the doc. did however relate the OK. bombing by McVeigh as retaliation for what he witnessed in Waco.